Do Americnas like Presidents with Maturity?

[barking_iguana]

cos quotes Joe Klein saying "It is striking to me that such a young man is gonna bring to American politics a quality that we haven't seen in recent presidents, and that quality is maturity."

Going back through Kennedy, the only Presidents I'd consider mature are GWHB (pretty much), Ford, and maybe Johnson. Their reelection history is lousy.

OTOH, maturity has been strongly negatively correlated with being personally engaging. Obama's not Clinton in that regard, but he's a lot better than the three three I consider mature. Somewhere in the second-through-fourth group (out of eleven) with Kennedy and Reagan.

Comments

[chemoelectric.livejournal.com]

Can you explain what you mean by ‘maturity’? I have to say, I’m completely mystified.

[barking-iguana.livejournal.com]

Mostly self-knowledge and the temperance and focus that such knowledge gives to ambition. Most people make nearly life-long progress in this area as they age.

[chemoelectric.livejournal.com]

According to my reckoning, GHWB isn’t very mature, at all. I am judging largely on the basis of his family life, which is marked by extreme and unfathomably dangerous emotional fusion. It was and remains that horrible immaturity that has us in this particular global condition; at any time GHWB could have intervened like a man, and instead he whined like a beaten dog. To me, a major part of maturity is differentiation of the self, wherein one’s emotional reactions are not tied too directly to those of others, and in which the person cannot be so easily manipulated by those close to them. GHWB is no more mature than GWB, in this particular area, which I rate so highly.

Bill Clinton is not so good in this area, though one could do a whole lot worse; Nixon, for instance. Maybe if Nixon had married a cacodemon, the way GHWB did, he would have been as bad as GHWB. Gerald Ford may fare well OTOH, and perhaps also Jimmy Carter.

I suspect Obama will excel.

[tayefeth.livejournal.com]

A cacodemon? What's with blaming the man's shortcomings on his wife?

[chemoelectric.livejournal.com]

That might be a valid criticism, except that the shortcoming I am describing is manifested in his family life. In fact, what I’m really saying is that I think GHWB probably is a better person than Barbara Bush (and GWB), but that she is dragging GH down to her own level (and that of her son who takes after her).

[tayefeth.livejournal.com]

I don't see how the fact that his shortcoming is manifested in his family life makes it his wife's fault. If it's his shortcoming, it's his responsibility as an adult to compensate for it. It's not his wife's responsibility to compensate for her own shortcomings and his.

And you still haven't explained "cacodemon".

[chemoelectric.livejournal.com]

‘Personal responsibility’ is off-topic. ‘Cacodemon’ means an ‘evil spirit’. I used it metaphorically.

[tayefeth.livejournal.com]

You're blaming his wife for his shortcomings, but personal responsibility is off-topic?

[chemoelectric.livejournal.com]

Yes, it is way off-topic, to me rather plainly. The discussion is about whether GHWB is a mature person, not whether he has the responsibility to be mature. I say he is very immature, and that being married to a very bad person, by his choice, likely has made him even more immature than if he had married a ‘normal’ person. There isn’t the slightest indication in there where I believe the ethical responsibilities lie. It’s not even close.

[tayefeth.livejournal.com]

"Maybe if Nixon had married a cacodemon, the way GHWB did, he would have been as bad as GHWB."

How is this not blaming (ie. assigning responsibility for something bad) GHWB's wife for GHWB's maturity or lack thereof? If you can assign responsibility to GHWB's wife, why can't I talk about GHWB's responsibilities?

[chemoelectric.livejournal.com]

You can do what you want, but it’s not what the thread is about. This isn’t going anywhere.