A proud Pentecostal, tongue-talkin', creationist, pro-life Evangelical Democrat

[barking_iguana]

I'm sometimes distressed by the degree my friends find conservative America not only wrong (with which I surely agree) but incomprehensible. As if backward-thinking people from some other part of the world that we hear about on NPR are suitable subjects of empathy, but our neighbors are not, and we will shut out any human perception of them, just as many of them do to us.

Here's an essay by one of them. Yes, she's now a Democrat, but four years ago she was not. And she still has beliefs that will make most of you cringe. Yes, her political conversion was likely assisted by racial affinity with Obama, but that was only one factor among several.

In her essay, I hope you will see ways to talk warmly and sincerely with cultural conservatives. Those cultural conservatives most eager to talk politics are probably the least reachable; my experience is that most (but not all) of the overtly political ones are more looking for enemies than for ways to live their ostensible values. But that is not true of most of the less political ones.

Aside: The reason the Right sees Obama as portraying himself as a messiah is that he fully understands this and says it better than I do. He threatens evangelical leaders' hold on their adherents with a message that gives a thrill of commonality. That, in turn, makes some on the Left doubt his liberal bona fides. But how much of a centrist/corporatist Obama does or doesn't turn out to be has no actual relationship to his respect for all people, including our conservative neighbors.

Comments

[tayefeth.livejournal.com]

The backward-thinking people from other parts of the world that we hear about on NPR are generally not actively trying to prevent me from living my life according to my own values. The Radical Right in US, on the other hand, is actively trying to prevent me and mine from living our lives according to our own values. Sarah Palin, for example, wants to make it illegal for me to abort a pregnancy begun by rape that would actively threaten my life. If you cannot understand why that attitude in people who have a vote about the leadership of my country makes me hostile and unwilling to talk warmly and sincerely, I have to wonder about your sanity.

I can accept that there are women who love being pregnant, and women who haven't been able to have as many children as they'd like, and women who can't ever imagine needing or wanting an abortion. What I can't accept, and don't really feel the need to express empathy for, is the people who refuse to accept that I am not them and I will not sit down and shut up while they try to force me to pretend to be them. Worrying about whether I'm hurting conservatives' feelings while they're actively working to deny me access to abortions, emergency contraception, regular contraception, and even information about contraception is incredibly insulting.

[barking-iguana.livejournal.com]

I am not the slightest big concerned that you are treating Sarah Palin unfairly. It is not their political leaders I'm referring to. But when we assume that all who listen to those leaders are exactly like them (or are hopelessly, incomprehensibly, and permanently stupid) we harm our own cause, as well as exaggerate the faults of those we should reach out to.

[tayefeth.livejournal.com]

I find myself wondering why I should reach out to people who want to kill me. But perhaps you're suggesting that a heathen like myself should be able to tell the difference between an evangelical who makes no attempt to talk to me (rather than preach at me) but only wishes I would be visited by their personal imaginary friend and an evangelical who makes no attempt to talk to me (rather than preach at me) and fully expects to gleefully shoot me in the service of their personal imaginary friend, without spending all of my emotional energy on the project.

[barking-iguana.livejournal.com]

I am suggesting that the vast majority of cultural conservatives would not do you harm, except by the laws they would have passed. If you say that your best way of coping with the fact that there are exceptions is to have nothing to do with any of them, even when not talking politics, I would have the same accepting attitude that I do when someone I know who lived through the 1960s riots and has more recently been mugged and seriously injured by African-American home-invaders refuses to set foot in Newark.

[tayefeth.livejournal.com]

If someone is not preaching at me and not talking politics (and not wearing an "abortion stills a beating heart" pin or like), I would have no way of knowing their religio-political views and would treat them as a person. What I refuse to do is seek out people who are almost certain to want laws passed that will harm me or my family in order to show empathy and understanding. Your original post certainly implied that "your friends" are at fault for not seeking out cultural conservatives and making nice with them. I cannot find words strong enough to express how sick I am, as a woman and a liberal, of being told that it's my job to be understanding and accomodating and make peace with people who show no desire to reciprocate in kind.

[barking-iguana.livejournal.com]

I'm not talking about seeking people out. I'm talking about encounters with friends of friends, annoying but not intentionally provocative relatives, those we do encounter in a relatively uncharged atmosphere, whether we want to or not. I know from first as well as second hand experience that it's all too easy to see someone with some bad traits an/or beliefs as also having a bunch or related traits and beliefs. And then to see them as nothing more than those traits and beliefs. I don't think that helps us regardless of what it does to them.

[barking-iguana.livejournal.com]

To put it another way, the Dobsons and Palins of the world feed on hate. That is, they feed on the notion that there are two sides and the other side is worthy of only hatred. That is a false view of the world. And anything we do to reinforce that view only makes the purveyors of hate stronger.

[tayefeth.livejournal.com]

They also feed on the notion that liberals are weak, and prefer compromise to confrontation. The Dobsons and Palins and Bushes and Roves and McCains think that we will always be willing to move towards the "center", no matter how far to the right they go. I do not have to claim that there are only two sides to an issue in order to clearly state my personal position and refuse to compromise my life.

[barking-iguana.livejournal.com]

I'm not calling for compromise. Any more than Obama's being willing to talk to evil foreign leaders is calling for compromise with them. I am calling for making an effort at comprehending their internal picture of the world. Not in order to accommodate their demands, but to at a minimum see where they may be reached with specific arguments and at a maximum where their underlying needs (not their specific demands) might be met in ways that do not actually infringe on others.

And when have I criticized you or anyone else for stating personal positions about issues. The only criticism I have is when we (not you in particular, except that it's you I'm corresponding with at this moment) make unfounded assumptions about others' positions.

[chemoelectric.livejournal.com]

You shouldn’t mention your friends, just that you encounter such people. In my opinion. No need to embarass friends too much. :)

[chemoelectric.livejournal.com]

BTW I usually don’t say much of anything with wingsters, because they’ll outsmart me quickly.

[rabjeff.livejournal.com]

As a progressive religious Jew I find sometimes I have a language of discourse with fundamentalists Jews, Christians, or Muslims, but other times, or with other folks, we can't talk at all. I have the same experience with militant atheists who insist that a spiritual world view is just a crutch or vestige of some previous age.

As someone who does believe in treating people as I wish to be treated, I do my best to emphasize the commonalities we share.

[cinema-babe.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying this and saying it so eloquently.

I was going to say more, but I'm not; just thank you.

[barking-iguana.livejournal.com]

Heh. I suppose you could have written an essay nearly identical to the one I linked.

[tactisle.livejournal.com]

A thought: When we rail against the wacko right wing talking about terrorism as though all of "those people" have an incurable terrorist-disease and the only possible solution is to send armies after them 'til they all die or surrender...

...it could be worthwhile to realize that there are bunches of people in Republican neighborhoods who, while immersed in the culture and following the lead of their leaders, might start to have doubts about their leaders' righteousness if someone on our side bothered to translate our concerns into their frame of reference.

Much like, say, Iraq.

The Republicans have plenty of spies and agents-provocateur in our camp; why don't we seem to have the same in theirs? It feels very much like the U.S. military's deficiencies in the Arabic-interpreter field.

[barking-iguana.livejournal.com]

there are bunches of people in Republican neighborhoods who... might start to have doubts about their leaders' righteousness if someone on our side bothered to translate our concerns into their frame of reference.

Even if they only doubt their lieaders rightness rather than the righteousness, I'd be happy.

The Republicans have plenty of spies and agents-provocateur in our camp; why don't we seem to have the same in theirs? It feels very much like the U.S. military's deficiencies in the Arabic-interpreter field.

Excellent analogy. Thank you.